So what I can bring to the table is that I'm very artist oriented. I'm not as much record oriented, and I think that the best of my work is really much more about the artist than about the particular record. And I think that's a really radically different approach from a lot of what's going on today.
To me technology is all stuff we get to use -- and I love it all. Some of it's frustrating and some of it's great, but even the most advanced technology in the world is just a tool in service of the art and the artist. Why do you think there aren't more women producers out there?
Well, you know, I think it's cultural first of all. I was raised in a kind of post-war generation where there were very few role models for young girls to be that kind of leader, coupled with the fact that growing up in the '60s girls didn't get to be a part of bands.
The music and the mechanics of music were a male-dominated thing, because it was guys in their teens getting together and playing in the garage. And through that there was a shared learning experience among boys and men which young girls were denied -- which is why you've got more female solo singer-songwriters out of my generation than you ever did girl band members.
And frankly, I think that the technology is and has been terribly intimidating to women, although you and I know that's changing. There's some marvelous women engineers and there are some really good women producers. But it's still a drop in the bucket compared to the number of men.
And it takes a lot of guts for a gal to get up in front of a room full of musicians and say, "No, like this. You know, there's this moment in the studio laughs when you have to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, where you're going to lead the pack. And first of all, that means you have to have the men -- and it's all a room full of men, generally -- accept your leadership.
And you're talking about, in some cases, big, rich programmers or hot studio players. And you have to stand up and go, "That's not the way that I think it's going to work for this record. I really think that this is where it needs to go, and I would really like you to try it.
And it's an equally, if not more terrifying moment for men. For a group of men who have, again, their shared cultural experience. I've always marveled and thought that the music scene is still in the stone age as far as the roles that women are really able to play. I mean, there's one head of a major label who is a woman. There's probably less than ten great women engineers who are able to work full time. Now we're not talking about women who produce themselves.
We're talking about women who are hired by record companies that are run by men. You know, if I go up against a guy producer, who's gonna get the job? How was it learning your producing chops in Nashville? I was fortunate because when I started producing there was a wonderful community of musicians in Nashville. Very prominent session players who helped me, who stood by me, who let me work.
They had respected me as a writer. And subsequent musicians I've worked with, for some of them my reputation precedes me. But in some cases I have to go through it even today. Just recently on a project I had a clash of personalities where the first thing was, "Well, Wendy, we think it should be like this. Wendy, what do you think this record should be like.
I would really like you to try this," laughs. And I'd be really shocked at any musicians who would say, "I won't try something. And I guess that taught me. The only thing I can think of is that women need to talk to each other more about how to stand their ground.
It's a boy's game and it's not going to change. So you need to know if you're a woman producer -- laughs this is your reality -- you're going to be dealing with guys. And you have to work through your vision of the record so that when you're confronted with the inevitable you don't lose ground.
You go, "Okay, I see what this guy's trying to do. But the fact is I know what kind of a record I think we should make. And I'm going to try like hell to make that record.
With this being the reality, what do you think the equipment manufacturers and dealers need to know about women in this industry? Well, that's an interesting question. I think that women in the industry side -- the production, engineering, technical side -- that whole part of the industry is in it's infancy.
There are women who are brilliant programmers and fine engineers. Women have bought the notion that they can't run a computer or that they can't program, you know?
But this stuff is as technical as it is -- you can paint it pink, but it's still gonna be really hard laughs. I work every day with some extraordinarily bright men, and our stuff crashes, and everybody's reading manuals, it's no different.
It's just are we ready to have Roland start taking ads out with women running the gear? It wouldn't hurt. It really wouldn't hurt.
And I think my guess is that it's an inevitability that we're going to see more and more women getting into it. The younger generation of women I don't think have some of the stigma that my generation has.
We haven't seen a lot of it yet, but we'll be seeing more and more of young girls just going, "Well, I'm gonna do it myself. You're going to school. What you said about women having bought into this for so long when all it takes is doing it I mean a manual's a manual, right? And all it takes to do it is patience. Because it's a really long road to overcoming your own fear of taking charge.
To overcoming your fear of technology. To gaining the kind of strength within yourself to require a certain standard of performance from the people around you. And to give yourself permission to be the standard setter. So what you're looking at is, "I'm going to transform myself ultimately into the person with whom the buck stops.
And women have not, generally -- although there are many exceptions -- been raised to have the buck stop with them and to be comfortable taking that role. You have to understand that sometimes you're going to have to stake what you think is right on something that may not work out. You're looking at a combination of confidence in your instinct and flexibility, and how to balance those. And the tremendous risk of being the person that says, "Well, here's how it really should go.
No doubt about it. And if it succeeds it'll be the credit of the label and the artist. But that's life. That's what it is to be a producer. You've taken a pretty active role in the marketing and artist development of John Cowan, whose album you just produced.
That seems like something that's become more and more neglected in the music industry as a whole. Well, I've sort of backed into this. This is a new learning curve for me. I'm an active musician, and I love to play with my buddies and record with my buddies.
And obviously, like everybody else, by the mid-'80s I was extraordinarily frustrated with the fact that a majority of artists were not able to find recording outlets. If you fit into a certain few categories and you had all the right stuff you could get a major label deal. But one thing missing off that checklist and you literally had no place to play your music, which to me was agonizing.
And my friends and I were all talking about how it's not right that many wonderful artists who do have audiences out there can't reach them because the labels have gone in a different direction. They're doing a different kind of business. And fortunately for us all, I guess every action brings a reaction. The more corporate the majors have become, nature's solution has been to begin to provide us other outlets. And because of the nature of the artists who seem to come to me, I've had to learn about those outlets.
So today, my feeling is -- very strongly -- that if an artist comes to me and wants to work with me, they have to be willing to do what it's going to take to go out and work that record. Things are, ironically, more like they were in the early '60s where if an artist was good on stage, the audience liked it, and they'd go buy the artist's records. And then, after that, things became where if the audience liked the record, then they'd go hear the artist, because the records were hit-driven and radio-driven.
But now we have a huge segment of the artist population that isn't going to be radio-driven. Many artists are not going to get radio. They're not going to get it. So we have to learn to re-align our thinking. For everybody to think that all music must go through the eye of the radio needle The real new thinking is, "What are my ways to the audience. It's very much that. I came from a generation where if you didn't have a gold record and if you weren't signed to a major label, you might as well go live in Shanty Town laughs.
You were so embarrassed to hold your head up around town laughs because you were "between deals. I want to know what it's like. I want to see if I'm strong enough as a musician to just survive without the dang record deal.
And it's been an interesting journey. The Internet is certainly a gift of a tool. I think that the Internet is the greatest gift to all of us. It's just incredible because for all these years corporate labels have stood between the artist and the audience. And we finally have a vehicle where if the artist has the structure, and has the inclination, you can go right to your audience. It's not easy , but it's not impossible laughs , which is what it was.
It was impossible. There were reasons why for a long long time you didn't hear records from some of your favorite singer-songwriters. It wasn't because they were all dead, it was because there literally was no way they could figure out how to get out there. But it doesn't seem to me that you can stop the Internet. And therefore, if you're an artist and you understand that it's a holistic approach, you've got a shot. You have to make a decent-sounding record, your production values have to be good, and it's got to be a well-thought-out piece of work with good content and good performance.
If you're willing to have a web site, if you're willing to put your ass out there on the street and play music for people and reach out to people and thus see your career as a two-pronged deal, then you've got a shot. But it's only going to work according to how good you are. You're really going back to the audience and saying, "Well, fundamentally it's up to you. If you like what I do, I'm an artist. If you don't, I'm a shoe salesman. Various elements -- electric guitar, backup vocals, scaled-down strings and, most importantly, excellent brass arrangements -- gradually accrue, lending each song its aura of self-contained inevitability.
The album opens with "Train Song," a hypnotic fantasy in which romantic and spiritual freedom are equated with riding a train in the morning sun. A nice organ-guitar arrangement balanced equally against background vocals creates a delicate yet relentless momentum above which Waldman sings the song's pictorial refrain: "You. A soft string arrangement punctuated by hard triplet piano chords builds toward a powerful emotional climax. The beautiful "Horse Dream," a night vision delivered with a strong gospel fervor, has Waldman singing to only her own piano accompaniment.
Then the bluesy "Can't Come In" provides a perfect change of pace. Opening with chunky acoustic guitar chords that recall the intro to Joni Mitchell's "Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire," the cut abruptly segues into a harder, meaner sound as Waldman enacts her desperately painful rejection of a still-attractive lover who has hurt her too many times in the past to be given another chance.
Toward the end, a triumphant brass choir comes up front to confirm the lady's resolution. The side closes with the beautiful "Pirate Ships," another magical lullaby, this one sung to a child with a simple arrangement featuring piano, light strings and laid-back vocals. It is a moving tribute to the imaginative power of music, specifically old records: Well you come to me on the record player Let me start it from the first side again 'Cause it sounds so fine to me Are you just a storyteller Telling stories just to kill your own pen But it sounds so fine to me.
Here she proclaims that with the passage of time, the quality of love changes in unforeseeable ways; that sustained commitment to a lover is difficult; and finally that the question of whether two people really "know" each other is ever-recurrent in an intimate relationship. By the time it ends, her music has got me, and I'm not about to let it go. She has made eight critically acclaimed solo albums, toured extensively and is one of the first female record producers to have a major impact in the music industry.
However, Bryndle proved to be a powerful springboard for all four partners, who each went on to highly successful careers. Records in and proclaimed by Rolling Stone Magazine to be the "singer-songwriter debut of the year. Waldman developed a strong fan following with the release of subsequent albums on Warner Bros.
More than 70 other artists have recorded Waldman's songs. Read More. The Train Is Leaving - single. More Music. Podcast: From The Longhouse. Warner Bros. View fullsize. Apple Music. Connect with Wendy. Stay Connected.
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